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	<title>Comments on: why christ&#8217;s humanity had to be perfect</title>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Allison</title>
		<link>http://www.roestudios.com/b-log/2008/05/why-christs-humanity-had-to-be-perfect/comment-page-1/#comment-73</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Allison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 19:23:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It isn&#039;t really fair to change the definition of a word when you are responding to something I said&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I didn&#039;t think I was changing a definition, I thought I was clarifying one. Apologies.

&lt;blockquote&gt;...Perfection...means &quot;unable to improve further&quot;.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I agree with this definition.

&lt;blockquote&gt;It was only after the resurrection that he was unable to sin in his humanity.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

But on City of God you said:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Instead, I believe that creatures with free will necessarily have the possibility of sinning.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

1) As you said, free will means the possibility of sinning &lt;b&gt;necessarily&lt;/b&gt; exists. I think you would agree that Christ has free will (see point 3). Therefore, the possibility must still exist that Christ could sin. If, Christ having free will, the &lt;i&gt;possibility&lt;/i&gt; of sinning still exists, then He is essentially the same as He was prior to the resurrection regarding His perfection.

As far as I can tell, the reason He was sinless on Earth and will forever remain sinless is &lt;i&gt;because&lt;/i&gt; of the presence of His Divinity, giving fidelity to His humanity. If He was human alone, as was the case with Adam #1, He would have in all likelihood fallen. It was Christ&#039;s Divinity that maintained His sinlessness, in which case, His humanity has seen no effective improvement (as sin potential still must exist in no different a way than it did prior to the Crucifixion).

If He&#039;s seen no effective change then He is as He has always been. Thus, if He is perfect now, He has always been perfect.

2) God resides outside of time. Therefore, true perfection is not momentary and must extend throughout time infinitely. If Christ was perfected upon the Resurrection, then this perfection would have necessarily been made manifest before the Crucifixion in order to truly be perfection (because post resurrection the &quot;past-Christ&quot; would have been imperfect thus keeping &quot;present-Christ&quot; imperfect). Thus, Christ would have been perfect before the Crucifixion.

3) Even on Earth Christ said that He has no will except that of the Father, which would seem to preclude the possibility of Christ sinning even &lt;i&gt;prior&lt;/i&gt; to the Crucifixion, in which case, He would still have seen no improvement post-resurrection.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It isn&#8217;t really fair to change the definition of a word when you are responding to something I said</p></blockquote>
<p>I didn&#8217;t think I was changing a definition, I thought I was clarifying one. Apologies.</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8230;Perfection&#8230;means &#8220;unable to improve further&#8221;.</p></blockquote>
<p>I agree with this definition.</p>
<blockquote><p>It was only after the resurrection that he was unable to sin in his humanity.</p></blockquote>
<p>But on City of God you said:</p>
<blockquote><p>Instead, I believe that creatures with free will necessarily have the possibility of sinning.</p></blockquote>
<p>1) As you said, free will means the possibility of sinning <b>necessarily</b> exists. I think you would agree that Christ has free will (see point 3). Therefore, the possibility must still exist that Christ could sin. If, Christ having free will, the <i>possibility</i> of sinning still exists, then He is essentially the same as He was prior to the resurrection regarding His perfection.</p>
<p>As far as I can tell, the reason He was sinless on Earth and will forever remain sinless is <i>because</i> of the presence of His Divinity, giving fidelity to His humanity. If He was human alone, as was the case with Adam #1, He would have in all likelihood fallen. It was Christ&#8217;s Divinity that maintained His sinlessness, in which case, His humanity has seen no effective improvement (as sin potential still must exist in no different a way than it did prior to the Crucifixion).</p>
<p>If He&#8217;s seen no effective change then He is as He has always been. Thus, if He is perfect now, He has always been perfect.</p>
<p>2) God resides outside of time. Therefore, true perfection is not momentary and must extend throughout time infinitely. If Christ was perfected upon the Resurrection, then this perfection would have necessarily been made manifest before the Crucifixion in order to truly be perfection (because post resurrection the &#8220;past-Christ&#8221; would have been imperfect thus keeping &#8220;present-Christ&#8221; imperfect). Thus, Christ would have been perfect before the Crucifixion.</p>
<p>3) Even on Earth Christ said that He has no will except that of the Father, which would seem to preclude the possibility of Christ sinning even <i>prior</i> to the Crucifixion, in which case, He would still have seen no improvement post-resurrection.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.roestudios.com/b-log/2008/05/why-christs-humanity-had-to-be-perfect/comment-page-1/#comment-72</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 19:16:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Jesus Christ (God&#039;s only son) was and still is perfection. Some may think he didn&#039;t but he died for all our sins and not his. He has so much love for all of us for God&#039;s word says: For God so loved the world that he gave his only son that whoever belives is him shall not perish but have eternal life! (John 3:16)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jesus Christ (God&#8217;s only son) was and still is perfection. Some may think he didn&#8217;t but he died for all our sins and not his. He has so much love for all of us for God&#8217;s word says: For God so loved the world that he gave his only son that whoever belives is him shall not perish but have eternal life! (John 3:16)</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew</title>
		<link>http://www.roestudios.com/b-log/2008/05/why-christs-humanity-had-to-be-perfect/comment-page-1/#comment-71</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 18:20:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It isn&#039;t really fair to change the definition of a word when you are responding to something I said. I had already claimed that Christ lacked all flaws in his humanity. Perfection (as I was using it) did not mean &quot;without flaw&quot;. Instead, it means &quot;unable to improve further&quot;.

Goodness means without any flaw, lacking nothing as regards oneself. Christ in his humanity was always good. He was not always perfect. It was only after the resurrection that he was unable to sin in his humanity. That is an improvement. Therefore, he was not perfect in his humanity before. QED.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It isn&#8217;t really fair to change the definition of a word when you are responding to something I said. I had already claimed that Christ lacked all flaws in his humanity. Perfection (as I was using it) did not mean &#8220;without flaw&#8221;. Instead, it means &#8220;unable to improve further&#8221;.</p>
<p>Goodness means without any flaw, lacking nothing as regards oneself. Christ in his humanity was always good. He was not always perfect. It was only after the resurrection that he was unable to sin in his humanity. That is an improvement. Therefore, he was not perfect in his humanity before. QED.</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Allison</title>
		<link>http://www.roestudios.com/b-log/2008/05/why-christs-humanity-had-to-be-perfect/comment-page-1/#comment-70</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Allison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 16:25:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I agree that &quot;perfect&quot; is a hard concept regarding something like a lamb, or anything for that matter. I simply meant &quot;as perfect as it could possibly be.&quot;

The &quot;best we can do&quot; is find a lamb without blemish. That is the closest to perfect that is conceivably possible -- but that&#039;s fine: this is simply foreshadowing Christ who was &lt;i&gt;actually&lt;/i&gt; perfect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that &#8220;perfect&#8221; is a hard concept regarding something like a lamb, or anything for that matter. I simply meant &#8220;as perfect as it could possibly be.&#8221;</p>
<p>The &#8220;best we can do&#8221; is find a lamb without blemish. That is the closest to perfect that is conceivably possible &#8212; but that&#8217;s fine: this is simply foreshadowing Christ who was <i>actually</i> perfect.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.roestudios.com/b-log/2008/05/why-christs-humanity-had-to-be-perfect/comment-page-1/#comment-69</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 15:14:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.roestudios.com/wp/?p=31#comment-69</guid>
		<description>Ben,

A lamb &quot;without blemish&quot; is not the same as a perfect lamb. Depending on how you feel about the notion ideal forms a perfect lamb may even be a nonsensical concept. Not only would a perfect lamb have to free from whatever sort of defect was considered a &quot;blemish,&quot; it would also have to have perfect proportions, symmetry et cetera. It does not follow that a lamb without blemish is a &quot;perfect lamb&quot; and it isn&#039;t obvious that a perfect lamb can even be thought to exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben,</p>
<p>A lamb &#8220;without blemish&#8221; is not the same as a perfect lamb. Depending on how you feel about the notion ideal forms a perfect lamb may even be a nonsensical concept. Not only would a perfect lamb have to free from whatever sort of defect was considered a &#8220;blemish,&#8221; it would also have to have perfect proportions, symmetry et cetera. It does not follow that a lamb without blemish is a &#8220;perfect lamb&#8221; and it isn&#8217;t obvious that a perfect lamb can even be thought to exist.</p>
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