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	<title>Comments on: evolutionary ethics</title>
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	<link>http://www.roestudios.com/b-log/2008/06/evolutionary-ethics/</link>
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	<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 19:55:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: benjamin</title>
		<link>http://www.roestudios.com/b-log/2008/06/evolutionary-ethics/#comment-126</link>
		<dc:creator>benjamin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 21:02:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://roestudios.com/b-log/?p=48#comment-126</guid>
		<description>1) I agree that it is disadvantageous to the group. I'm saying that in an Evolutionary based ethic, it's irrelevant.

2) Evolution does not typically permit that every species exists as  group. They start through singular, individuated mutations.

3) I agree that most of us know murder that is wrong apart from the Word – I never implied the opposite, and I think you're importing this into my argument. We know it intuitively and instinctively.

We know what is right and wrong because of how we have been created. It is the Imago Dei within us, in built into our very being.

This is the "somewhere else" I refer to. My only argument is that Evolution does not arrive us at the kind of morality humanity actually entertains. An evolved morality looks very different than the kind of morality we are used, and justifies actions that are at odds with what every rational person over the span of recorded human history would condemn.

It leads us down a much darker and more sinister path.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1) I agree that it is disadvantageous to the group. I&#8217;m saying that in an Evolutionary based ethic, it&#8217;s irrelevant.</p>
<p>2) Evolution does not typically permit that every species exists as  group. They start through singular, individuated mutations.</p>
<p>3) I agree that most of us know murder that is wrong apart from the Word – I never implied the opposite, and I think you&#8217;re importing this into my argument. We know it intuitively and instinctively.</p>
<p>We know what is right and wrong because of how we have been created. It is the Imago Dei within us, in built into our very being.</p>
<p>This is the &#8220;somewhere else&#8221; I refer to. My only argument is that Evolution does not arrive us at the kind of morality humanity actually entertains. An evolved morality looks very different than the kind of morality we are used, and justifies actions that are at odds with what every rational person over the span of recorded human history would condemn.</p>
<p>It leads us down a much darker and more sinister path.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.roestudios.com/b-log/2008/06/evolutionary-ethics/#comment-122</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jun 2008 20:19:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://roestudios.com/b-log/?p=48#comment-122</guid>
		<description>Yes, it disadvantages humans as a group. That's harmful to a species that's only ever existed in groups. What is even un-Christian about that? Is God not revealed through his works, wouldn't the development of some rudimentary ethics be one of those (even prior to revealed religion)? 

Do you really believe that, prior to the ten commandments, no one had any idea that theft or murder was wrong?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, it disadvantages humans as a group. That&#8217;s harmful to a species that&#8217;s only ever existed in groups. What is even un-Christian about that? Is God not revealed through his works, wouldn&#8217;t the development of some rudimentary ethics be one of those (even prior to revealed religion)? </p>
<p>Do you really believe that, prior to the ten commandments, no one had any idea that theft or murder was wrong?</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Allison</title>
		<link>http://www.roestudios.com/b-log/2008/06/evolutionary-ethics/#comment-118</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Allison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 20:25:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://roestudios.com/b-log/?p=48#comment-118</guid>
		<description>Hahaha. Yes I personally agree!

All I'm saying is that one who looks to Evolution as a platform on which to build morality cannot say that the thief is wrong for being a thief.

Our morality comes from somewhere else... more on this to come.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hahaha. Yes I personally agree!</p>
<p>All I&#8217;m saying is that one who looks to Evolution as a platform on which to build morality cannot say that the thief is wrong for being a thief.</p>
<p>Our morality comes from somewhere else&#8230; more on this to come.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.roestudios.com/b-log/2008/06/evolutionary-ethics/#comment-117</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jun 2008 19:59:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://roestudios.com/b-log/?p=48#comment-117</guid>
		<description>The thief is acting incorrectly, because everyone is going to get together and punish him and he'll be worse off than when he started!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thief is acting incorrectly, because everyone is going to get together and punish him and he&#8217;ll be worse off than when he started!</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Allison</title>
		<link>http://www.roestudios.com/b-log/2008/06/evolutionary-ethics/#comment-114</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Allison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 11:08:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://roestudios.com/b-log/?p=48#comment-114</guid>
		<description>But it does... it really does. What you are describing is the group identifying a common threat and acting together, motivated by their individual good.

This does not in anyway show that the thief is acting incorrectly! 

Evolutionarily, the group's aversion to the thief's act is justified in no more or less a way than the thief's action itself is justified.

It's true that most people respect the needs of the group they are in but this "group care" does not preclude or make wrong the act of one seeking his own best interests at the expense of others; if it did, evolution wouldn't work! According to evolution he is justified (which is what I'm arguing) though his surrounding society might disagree.

The only arbiter of right and wrong in an evolutionary ethic is ultimately advancement, survival, and propagation -- the "group" cannot even come to be without this principle and is dependent on it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But it does&#8230; it really does. What you are describing is the group identifying a common threat and acting together, motivated by their individual good.</p>
<p>This does not in anyway show that the thief is acting incorrectly! </p>
<p>Evolutionarily, the group&#8217;s aversion to the thief&#8217;s act is justified in no more or less a way than the thief&#8217;s action itself is justified.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s true that most people respect the needs of the group they are in but this &#8220;group care&#8221; does not preclude or make wrong the act of one seeking his own best interests at the expense of others; if it did, evolution wouldn&#8217;t work! According to evolution he is justified (which is what I&#8217;m arguing) though his surrounding society might disagree.</p>
<p>The only arbiter of right and wrong in an evolutionary ethic is ultimately advancement, survival, and propagation &#8212; the &#8220;group&#8221; cannot even come to be without this principle and is dependent on it.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.roestudios.com/b-log/2008/06/evolutionary-ethics/#comment-112</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 04:30:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://roestudios.com/b-log/?p=48#comment-112</guid>
		<description>Okay, what you fail to see is that if there is a problem with, say a thief in a society. Yes the theft might temporarily aid that one individual. But the rest of the group would clearly see this as disadvantageous and dispatch the thief. If d) is true then most individuals would see that observing at least some principles of morality helps both the group and the individual. Ethical egoism does not follow from evolution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, what you fail to see is that if there is a problem with, say a thief in a society. Yes the theft might temporarily aid that one individual. But the rest of the group would clearly see this as disadvantageous and dispatch the thief. If d) is true then most individuals would see that observing at least some principles of morality helps both the group and the individual. Ethical egoism does not follow from evolution.</p>
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